I really enjoyed it, although I need to go see it again. The whole movie I was thinking to myself "it had better not just be that he's been dreaming the entire time because figuring out the ending 15 minutes into a 2 and a half hour movie really sucks", but the ending was satisfying and the little plot twists were too.
I felt a little shaky on the 'kicks' and people dying while too heavily sedated and going into limbo rather than waking up, but as I said I need to see it again.
I forreals think it's my new favorite movie. I really, really really (really) really, really enjoyed it. I thought it was basically Shutter Island done right (ie more intense visuals, more action, more mindfuck, more AAAAARGH cliffhanger ending, hotter actresses in leading roles, more mind-foodish, etc.).
My friends and I spent hours discussing exactly what happened and the rules of the dreamworlds and such; it was really satisfying and interesting and such.
Recommend!
My only complaint is that the wife was kind of an uninteresting character. It was easy to say to myself "Why does he care about her? She's such a crazy bitch!". Her acting was kind of eh. But it didn't exactly ruin the movie or anything, I just wish it was easier to sympathize with the dude being in love with her (memory).
A few of my friends said they didn't like the fact that the overarching plot of "Japanese dude needs to earn some money." didn't have the sort of "Let's save the world!" gravity that movies have nowadays, but I actually liked that. The movie had enough things to capture my attention without having to make the plot about the potential end of the world. It gives it a semi-realistic setting, then asks you to suspend disbelief regarding the ability to enter people's dreams, and then has a ball inventing all kinds of intricate rules for how that universe works. I found it absolutely fascinating!
Okay anyway I'm repeating myself.
Chris, is there anything in particular you didn't catch? I think I understand it fairly well at this point, so I might be able to help.
It's a struggle not reading this. My eyes keep trying to focus so whenever I click this thread I have to keep scrolling quickly up and down to keep from spoiling the movie. I hope I'll be able to see the movie soon and then engage in the discussion!
You know when you're learning something with a lot of background detail and you get the concepts but aren't like 100% comfortable with them? Yea, that. The limbo bit wasn't overly complicated I just didn't find myself believing it as readily as the rest of the caveats, maybe a second viewing will resolve that.
The 'kicks' or waking people up with queues within the dream bit made sense but following the various ways they rigged them up while applying the rules didn't leave me with the "oh, ok, that makes sense" lightbulb for various bits. The music was the timer for the fixer dude, and the catalyst to waking them all up was the sense of falling or the actual act of falling over? Like being pushed over in a chair worked but falling through the air in a van did not, that just complicated everything because it removed gravity from the dream. Did the falling in the van not work because they needed to wake up in the lower level dream first, or because the kick wasn't happening until they actually hit the water?
Need to watch it again!
And, yea, Mall wasn't very robust, but she sure was beautiful. Of course she was also Leo's projection of her the whole movie so maybe her lack of depth was actually working as intended because she wasn't a real person, merely the machinations of Leo's memory and subconscious. Brilliantly subtle, or poorly written?
The kicks work when you... change acceleration, I guess. So either when you start falling or stop falling. They missed the first kick (the van falling off the edge), and it would only have worked if they were already up to that level (so the first of your options). So they decided to go for when the van hit the water instead :E
Being pushed over in a chair worked cause they were only one level down.
And yeah I had that thought about Mall being a projection after I posted. It would have been pure genius if they had made her more beautiful and interesting in the one memory of her that wasn't a projection (when he's telling Ellen Page about her). I'll write them a letter telling them to re-shoot that scene. :]
lols!
I re-saw it again a few hours ago. Made much more sense, but I found two problems I missed the first time around (I think everything else made sense though):
1) The shot where they lie down on the train tracks - they are WAY too young. They should have been ancient at that point, as described later in the movie. Not a plot hole so much as an artistic choice, I think, but it's still kind of silly. I guess they didn't want to have the older actors doing that part, since they'd undoubtedly sound and look completely different.
2) Kicks only work one level down... which is why they didn't wake up when the van fell off the bridge. But... one of them WAS only one level down. I didn't realize that the dude who was setting up the explosives in the hotel should have woken up from the fall, rather than just going into 0-g mode and fighting security personnel.
The fact that he set up the elevator kick in what was supposedly 2 minutes was kind of BS as well, but it's easy enough to pretend that he was just THAT good, I guess, so I don't think it's that big of a deal.
Okay I promise this is my last super-long post on the subject. EVERYONE GO SEE IT AHHHHHH
PS
Point #2 is I think partly related to what you were talking about earlier, or why it may have seemed off to you.
Also I thought I mentioned this earlier, but another weirdness would be that the music should be 20 times/400 times/8000 times slower in the dreams, but it played in real-time, which doesn't make sense really.
just saw it and i can finally read this post now!! Woo! I really liked it, though I did see a few of the plot holes you guys mentioned. The only thing I can attribute them to is the inherent unreality of dreams. Also, this movie is totally based on these character types from the table top gaming my buddies and I do. True dreamers. Although, in the game it's supernatural, rather than using wacky science. I just tried to attach the game book that deals with dreams for you guys but I guess a 9 meg pdf is too big for the attachment system or something.
Definitely a Shutter Island, but better, Tim! I also second Qyn's interpretation of Mall being flat due to her being just a projection. I have yet to read the links posted, but the ending is sorta tragic and beautiful since he forsakes his totem for his children and yet he may have done so too early (I guess if he was still in a dream then it could have happened from various ways. The most likely being that the Japanese guy had him put in one after the job was done). As for the plot hole with the guy in zero-gravity and not waking up I guess there'd be a way to explain it (maybe waking up that way is almost a choice? Or the jump actually wasn't enough anyway since the van slowly tips over and then falls?). Still that's a pretty big hole to fill :\
Qyn
Sat, 07/17/2010 - 11:40amI really enjoyed it, although I need to go see it again. The whole movie I was thinking to myself "it had better not just be that he's been dreaming the entire time because figuring out the ending 15 minutes into a 2 and a half hour movie really sucks", but the ending was satisfying and the little plot twists were too.
I felt a little shaky on the 'kicks' and people dying while too heavily sedated and going into limbo rather than waking up, but as I said I need to see it again.
Timmeh
Tue, 07/20/2010 - 1:44amI forreals think it's my new favorite movie. I really, really really (really) really, really enjoyed it. I thought it was basically Shutter Island done right (ie more intense visuals, more action, more mindfuck, more AAAAARGH cliffhanger ending, hotter actresses in leading roles, more mind-foodish, etc.).
My friends and I spent hours discussing exactly what happened and the rules of the dreamworlds and such; it was really satisfying and interesting and such.
Recommend!
My only complaint is that the wife was kind of an uninteresting character. It was easy to say to myself "Why does he care about her? She's such a crazy bitch!". Her acting was kind of eh. But it didn't exactly ruin the movie or anything, I just wish it was easier to sympathize with the dude being in love with her (memory).
A few of my friends said they didn't like the fact that the overarching plot of "Japanese dude needs to earn some money." didn't have the sort of "Let's save the world!" gravity that movies have nowadays, but I actually liked that. The movie had enough things to capture my attention without having to make the plot about the potential end of the world. It gives it a semi-realistic setting, then asks you to suspend disbelief regarding the ability to enter people's dreams, and then has a ball inventing all kinds of intricate rules for how that universe works. I found it absolutely fascinating!
Okay anyway I'm repeating myself.
Chris, is there anything in particular you didn't catch? I think I understand it fairly well at this point, so I might be able to help.
Crazy Rambles
Tue, 07/20/2010 - 6:47amIt's a struggle not reading this. My eyes keep trying to focus so whenever I click this thread I have to keep scrolling quickly up and down to keep from spoiling the movie. I hope I'll be able to see the movie soon and then engage in the discussion!
Qyn
Tue, 07/20/2010 - 6:51amYou know when you're learning something with a lot of background detail and you get the concepts but aren't like 100% comfortable with them? Yea, that. The limbo bit wasn't overly complicated I just didn't find myself believing it as readily as the rest of the caveats, maybe a second viewing will resolve that.
The 'kicks' or waking people up with queues within the dream bit made sense but following the various ways they rigged them up while applying the rules didn't leave me with the "oh, ok, that makes sense" lightbulb for various bits. The music was the timer for the fixer dude, and the catalyst to waking them all up was the sense of falling or the actual act of falling over? Like being pushed over in a chair worked but falling through the air in a van did not, that just complicated everything because it removed gravity from the dream. Did the falling in the van not work because they needed to wake up in the lower level dream first, or because the kick wasn't happening until they actually hit the water?
Need to watch it again!
And, yea, Mall wasn't very robust, but she sure was beautiful. Of course she was also Leo's projection of her the whole movie so maybe her lack of depth was actually working as intended because she wasn't a real person, merely the machinations of Leo's memory and subconscious. Brilliantly subtle, or poorly written?
Need to watch it again! +1
Timmeh
Tue, 07/20/2010 - 6:19pmThe kicks work when you... change acceleration, I guess. So either when you start falling or stop falling. They missed the first kick (the van falling off the edge), and it would only have worked if they were already up to that level (so the first of your options). So they decided to go for when the van hit the water instead :E
Being pushed over in a chair worked cause they were only one level down.
And yeah I had that thought about Mall being a projection after I posted. It would have been pure genius if they had made her more beautiful and interesting in the one memory of her that wasn't a projection (when he's telling Ellen Page about her). I'll write them a letter telling them to re-shoot that scene. :]
John
Thu, 07/22/2010 - 3:46pmHaven't read these posts b/c don't want spoilers, but I've heard this movie is awesome! I'm definitely going to see it soon.
Timmeh
Fri, 07/23/2010 - 5:11amhttp://www.cinematical.com/2010/07/19/dissecting-inception-six-interpretations-and-five-plot-holes/
Good read!
I think I like #4 the most of the theories, just cause it's neat. I thought #6 right after I saw the movie, but I think I've changed my mind on what happens to the top after it cuts to the credits.
ALSO HI JOHN!!
Qyn
Fri, 07/23/2010 - 7:47amGood link, Tim!
Anyone know a physicist whose expertise is calculating torque and rotational momentum?
Timmeh
Sun, 07/25/2010 - 12:45amlols!
I re-saw it again a few hours ago. Made much more sense, but I found two problems I missed the first time around (I think everything else made sense though):
1) The shot where they lie down on the train tracks - they are WAY too young. They should have been ancient at that point, as described later in the movie. Not a plot hole so much as an artistic choice, I think, but it's still kind of silly. I guess they didn't want to have the older actors doing that part, since they'd undoubtedly sound and look completely different.
2) Kicks only work one level down... which is why they didn't wake up when the van fell off the bridge. But... one of them WAS only one level down. I didn't realize that the dude who was setting up the explosives in the hotel should have woken up from the fall, rather than just going into 0-g mode and fighting security personnel.
The fact that he set up the elevator kick in what was supposedly 2 minutes was kind of BS as well, but it's easy enough to pretend that he was just THAT good, I guess, so I don't think it's that big of a deal.
Okay I promise this is my last super-long post on the subject. EVERYONE GO SEE IT AHHHHHH
Timmeh
Sun, 07/25/2010 - 12:47amPS
Point #2 is I think partly related to what you were talking about earlier, or why it may have seemed off to you.
Also I thought I mentioned this earlier, but another weirdness would be that the music should be 20 times/400 times/8000 times slower in the dreams, but it played in real-time, which doesn't make sense really.
Fap
Sun, 07/25/2010 - 9:19amjust saw it and i can finally read this post now!! Woo! I really liked it, though I did see a few of the plot holes you guys mentioned. The only thing I can attribute them to is the inherent unreality of dreams. Also, this movie is totally based on these character types from the table top gaming my buddies and I do. True dreamers. Although, in the game it's supernatural, rather than using wacky science. I just tried to attach the game book that deals with dreams for you guys but I guess a 9 meg pdf is too big for the attachment system or something.
Qyn
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 7:37amInception explained via infographic.
Crazy Rambles
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 8:39pmDefinitely a Shutter Island, but better, Tim! I also second Qyn's interpretation of Mall being flat due to her being just a projection. I have yet to read the links posted, but the ending is sorta tragic and beautiful since he forsakes his totem for his children and yet he may have done so too early (I guess if he was still in a dream then it could have happened from various ways. The most likely being that the Japanese guy had him put in one after the job was done). As for the plot hole with the guy in zero-gravity and not waking up I guess there'd be a way to explain it (maybe waking up that way is almost a choice? Or the jump actually wasn't enough anyway since the van slowly tips over and then falls?). Still that's a pretty big hole to fill :\
Qyn
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 7:21amtwss